Jainism is atheistic in the specific sense that matters: it denies a creator, a sustainer, and any being with authority over the universe. The universe, the loka, is uncreated, eternal, and shaped — in the classical description — like a standing figure with hands on hips. Jain philosophers, particularly Jinasena, Haribhadra and Hemachandra, argued the case against theism systematically. If God made the world, what was the motive? A perfect being has no unfulfilled desire, so no motive; an imperfect one is not God. Where did God do the making from, and out of what? If the world needs a maker, God needs one too, and if God does not, then neither does the world. Why would a benevolent creator produce a world containing this much suffering? These arguments circulated widely and were engaged seriously by Nyaya theists. The relevant contrast is that Buddhism was largely indifferent to the creator question while Jainism attacked it head-on, and the position has never softened. There are gods in Jain cosmology — deva in the heavens — but they are souls in a pleasant rebirth, subject to death and karma, and less well placed for liberation than a human.